Comments on: Christian America? http://bensigman.com/2009/04/christian-america/ A Ben Sigman Blog Sun, 25 Dec 2011 01:40:05 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: Anonymous http://bensigman.com/2009/04/christian-america/comment-page-1/#comment-236 Anonymous Wed, 15 Apr 2009 08:10:00 +0000 http://bensigman.com/2009/04/christian-america/#comment-236 A faith rooted in a living Christ is the only thing that can profoundly transform. The "faith" of the West, based on evidence, correct doctrine, etc. is based on rational acceptance. But God's grace transcends that, and reaches deep into our souls with grace to redeem us. No amount of evidence will drive us to our need ultimately, in spite of all our arguments otherwise. A faith rooted in a living Christ is the only thing that can profoundly transform. The “faith” of the West, based on evidence, correct doctrine, etc. is based on rational acceptance. But God’s grace transcends that, and reaches deep into our souls with grace to redeem us. No amount of evidence will drive us to our need ultimately, in spite of all our arguments otherwise.

]]> By: Anonymous http://bensigman.com/2009/04/christian-america/comment-page-1/#comment-235 Anonymous Tue, 14 Apr 2009 05:54:00 +0000 http://bensigman.com/2009/04/christian-america/#comment-235 OR a beautiful commentary on both "The End of Christian America" and "The coming evangelical collapse" right here: <br /><br />http://www.gregboyd.org/blog/dont-weep-for-the-demise-of-american-christianity/<br /><br />Very timely. And Boyd's first numbered point (further down) is exactly what you wrote, too - that this has never been a "Christian" America.<br /><br />~Josh OR a beautiful commentary on both “The End of Christian America” and “The coming evangelical collapse” right here:

http://www.gregboyd.org/blog/dont-weep-for-the-demise-of-american-christianity/

Very timely. And Boyd’s first numbered point (further down) is exactly what you wrote, too – that this has never been a “Christian” America.

~Josh

]]> By: Anonymous http://bensigman.com/2009/04/christian-america/comment-page-1/#comment-234 Anonymous Tue, 14 Apr 2009 02:59:00 +0000 http://bensigman.com/2009/04/christian-america/#comment-234 I had trouble with the following statement this author made. He said, "Evangelical Christians have long believed that the United States should be a nation whose political life is based upon and governed by their interpretation of biblical and theological principles." This is a very broad generalized statement. I think of myself as evangelical and essentially Christian and I don't agree with the statement. I am not for banning the sale of alcohol, like he suggests Christian evangelicals are, nor are any of my Christian friends. Unbelievers can smoke cigarettes or even pot for all I care. I wouldn't legislate against this. The author paints evangelicals as oppressive people bent on homogenizing society to their own strict moral code. However, most evangelicals do not necessarily require society to adhere to a strict code whether or not they themselves follow one. I am against abortion. But, any biblical consensus is coincidental. I'm against it because burning a defenseless human being alive in a saline solution or cutting it to pieces without an anesthetic is inherently morally reprehesible. It's hard to understand how any civilized society could tolerate it. It's a modern version of human sacrifices with doctors and science replacing preists and ritual to give it a stamp of credibility. But narcisism is the underlying factor, not some inherent social interest. Actually, I believe generally speaking atheists, agnostics and other non-believers need to be given room to exercise their free will without constraints of "puritanistic" interference. This kind of thing just gets in the way of their freedom to make a clear free will decision to follow Christ. It muddies the water. If a single person wants to have non-monogamous sex, who am I to interfere? If anything, experience will in the end show them the failings and risks of this kind of lifestyle and lead them to the path of truth. Churches have not failed because it's leaders did everything they could, but peoples' hearts were hard, churches have failed because pastors' were lazy. They thought their jobs were to preach sermons on Sunday and build attendence. They used words like "spiritual gifts" to refer to their own capacity, but failed to build an infrastructure that supported those who wanted to use their gifts for ministry. Ministry became exclusive and selective and subject to micromanagement, as a result there was no place for real acceptance and forgiveness to occur. Intelligent people see through this and that is why (especially in the Northwest) there has been spiritual disenfranchisement. I had trouble with the following statement this author made. He said, “Evangelical Christians have long believed that the United States should be a nation whose political life is based upon and governed by their interpretation of biblical and theological principles.” This is a very broad generalized statement. I think of myself as evangelical and essentially Christian and I don’t agree with the statement. I am not for banning the sale of alcohol, like he suggests Christian evangelicals are, nor are any of my Christian friends. Unbelievers can smoke cigarettes or even pot for all I care. I wouldn’t legislate against this. The author paints evangelicals as oppressive people bent on homogenizing society to their own strict moral code. However, most evangelicals do not necessarily require society to adhere to a strict code whether or not they themselves follow one. I am against abortion. But, any biblical consensus is coincidental. I’m against it because burning a defenseless human being alive in a saline solution or cutting it to pieces without an anesthetic is inherently morally reprehesible. It’s hard to understand how any civilized society could tolerate it. It’s a modern version of human sacrifices with doctors and science replacing preists and ritual to give it a stamp of credibility. But narcisism is the underlying factor, not some inherent social interest. Actually, I believe generally speaking atheists, agnostics and other non-believers need to be given room to exercise their free will without constraints of “puritanistic” interference. This kind of thing just gets in the way of their freedom to make a clear free will decision to follow Christ. It muddies the water. If a single person wants to have non-monogamous sex, who am I to interfere? If anything, experience will in the end show them the failings and risks of this kind of lifestyle and lead them to the path of truth. Churches have not failed because it’s leaders did everything they could, but peoples’ hearts were hard, churches have failed because pastors’ were lazy. They thought their jobs were to preach sermons on Sunday and build attendence. They used words like “spiritual gifts” to refer to their own capacity, but failed to build an infrastructure that supported those who wanted to use their gifts for ministry. Ministry became exclusive and selective and subject to micromanagement, as a result there was no place for real acceptance and forgiveness to occur. Intelligent people see through this and that is why (especially in the Northwest) there has been spiritual disenfranchisement.

]]> By: Anonymous http://bensigman.com/2009/04/christian-america/comment-page-1/#comment-233 Anonymous Mon, 13 Apr 2009 23:41:00 +0000 http://bensigman.com/2009/04/christian-america/#comment-233 Hey- I like what you have to say here. "That in the marketplace of religious pluralism that a faith rooted in historical evidence, lived out by imperfect followers, still attracts those who would believe". There is great hope in that. If we keep on following Christ, there will be people who join us along the way. The truth presented in love has a way of attracting people. Some stay, some go.<br />I do believe that there are some principles that the country was built on that have strong Christian underpinnings (liberty for all, all created equal, etc)but America was never a theocracy. Hey- I like what you have to say here. “That in the marketplace of religious pluralism that a faith rooted in historical evidence, lived out by imperfect followers, still attracts those who would believe”. There is great hope in that. If we keep on following Christ, there will be people who join us along the way. The truth presented in love has a way of attracting people. Some stay, some go.
I do believe that there are some principles that the country was built on that have strong Christian underpinnings (liberty for all, all created equal, etc)but America was never a theocracy.

]]> By: Anonymous http://bensigman.com/2009/04/christian-america/comment-page-1/#comment-232 Anonymous Mon, 13 Apr 2009 23:39:00 +0000 http://bensigman.com/2009/04/christian-america/#comment-232 well stated well stated

]]> By: Anonymous http://bensigman.com/2009/04/christian-america/comment-page-1/#comment-231 Anonymous Mon, 13 Apr 2009 22:27:00 +0000 http://bensigman.com/2009/04/christian-america/#comment-231 Nice.<br/><br/>Check out this mindblowing one.<br/><br/>"The coming evangelical collapse"<br/>http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0310/p09s01-coop.html<br/><br/>It's got some good insights, even if it may be overstating a bit.<br/><br/>-Josh Nice.

Check out this mindblowing one.

“The coming evangelical collapse”
http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0310/p09s01-coop.html

It’s got some good insights, even if it may be overstating a bit.

-Josh

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